I had a very interesting situation happen to me today. I just recently started playing an online game, and as I tend to do I was browsing the forums trying to discover tips and get to know the people there. There was a particular thread where folks could post item “wishlists” for the game. One poster was posting their list over and over again, about twice per page. This was annoying some people who made pissy comments. Then someone notified the members that the “spammer” didn’t speak very good English, in fact Spanish was his first language, and then asked if anyone knew Spanish so the etiquette rules could be explained. One gentlemen, we’ll call him GG, said: ……………..donto posto every pago…..???
See what he did there? Funny, right?
No, not at all. There were several people who laughed. I posted that I thought the comment was racist. The backlash was not pretty.
GG: ha ha…..ok….im jewish with a big nose ok????
Me: Then you should know better.
Becks: hey yoou are beautiful…………..nose sizes and culture dont even come into it…..anyway the man in your picture doesnt have a big nose!!!!!!!!!!!
Mary: I’m sure it was meant as a little joke..no racists here…. :thumbs:
GG: we are all good ppl here….just kidding…..calm down…..and i do know better….. *boggled face*
Kerry [in response to Mary]: Exactly! :thumbs:
Me [in response to Mary]: I understand it was meant as a joke. And I’m not saying that GG is a racist. I’m just pointing out that while the intention may have been innocent, it is still racist and perhaps more thought should be given before saying such things in the future.
Mary [in response to Me]: but if we can’t joke with each other here it’s no fun..we’ve “known” each other so long!!..how can anyone here be racist..we gift each other equally no matter where they’re from or who they are!!!
Me: I would say making a joke at the expense of another is no fun, especially when it insults an entire culture.
Scuba [in response to Me]: You guys, let’s just drop this ok? No one was trying to offend anyone, it was just a little play on words, I do it all the time too, and I have lived everywhere, seen tons of cultures, and love them all!!Let’s keep this thread nice and friendly please?
Becks [in response to Me]: the remark wasnt meant to be racist, or a joke on others behalf…….i think you are over analysing the situation,pople on here help others, we all know each other well, no harm was meant….
Mary [in response to Me]: no one was insulted but you..
GG [in response to Me]: ok now im upset…..u dont know me…and u dont know how many items i gave to arebs jews…spanish and americans….so just keep ur ideas for yourself…cause ur trying to look smart…but your not…………..
Mary [in response to Scuba]: exactly…someone needs to make a scene!
Pink [in response to GG]: IGNORE them adn they’ll go away hopefully
Becks [to someone who asked what was going on]: no love, some sad individual that is trying to make something out of nothing to make themselves feel better…………which to me is shallow!!! how are you?
Mary [to the same person as Becks] not at all hun..just someone wanting to cause drama for no reason!! how are you sweety??
GG: thank you the one who ruined my mood……………….im out
Queue bunch of folks begging GG not to go, remarking that ME didn’t know what they were talking about, etc., etc., etc., “You know it wasn’t racist”, ad nauseam.
This whole situation was really unsettling to me. I admit it, I cried. The kneejerk reactions, the patting each other on the back for not being racist while simultaneously insulting me and making passive-aggressive remarks just knocked me right in the stomach. A white male makes a racist comment, gets called out on it, and then is flocked to and fawned over by white females until it’s “all better” and he’s reassured he’s not really a racist. These are likely some of the same women who swear up and down they’re not racist, they’re colorblind, they never say a negative word about anyone. It just angers me, and frustrates me, and hurts me. Especially as a white woman. Can you imagine the backlash if I would have been a Latino person, or some other minority trying to speak out for themselves?
And people say that racism no longer exists. I left the thread without any more comments, unable to stand up and make more of a confrontation. I feel ashamed about that, I wish I would have been stronger in the moment. However, a friend of mine, trying to console me, said:
In other words, this guy (and this community), knows that what he said is racist. But, he didn’t really mean it in a racist or negative way. He was reaching for the cheap laugh. Sometimes…as a crusader, you have to take your lumps. You have to let the vitriol and irrational self-righteousness wash over you. You know, when you stir up someone, they feel like they got spanked, or slapped or something. Smacked down. That’s what he feels now. My suggestion is to drop it. You don’t want to turn into a drama loci. You just want the racism to stop. For people to be aware of the connection between their actions and the state of the modern world. I think you’ve probably done that. This guy won’t, probably, reach for the same cheap laugh again. He’ll be afraid, next time he’s tempted, that someone will call him on it and embarrass him in public like you did. I call that a victory. However, now, you have to let the children call you names, after you put them in the corner. That’s how it works. “Mom” gives the kid a timeout, the kid tells mom that he hates her and she’s ugly and stupid. However, the kid learns his lesson and doesn’t get put into the corner for the same thing again, because he knows if he does it again, he’ll be back in the corner. Effective parenting through superior firepower.
What do you all think?
ETA: As Meowser and Meghan pointed out to me, this isn’t necessarily racism since a native Spanish speaker could be any race. Thank you for that correction ladies. Yes, even I am not perfect and need to adjust my thinking. However, that does not mean that I believe the comments made were discriminatory, just that I put the wrong label on it.
Sounds to me like you have a really bright friend, there. It’s tougher online than in person, I think. When someone is in the room and says something racist but not ill-willed, you can let them know with a look that it was inappropriate without really interrupting the mood and flow of conversation — the person learns they made a mistake but isn’t publicly punished for it. Online, you have to be explicit, because there isn’t anything more subtle. He got defensive, because you made it public, where he might have been fine with a quick scowl. I don’t know what to do about it. Better to call it out than let it go.
I do kind of wish there were a different term than “racism” for what he did, just because so many think that racist only means KKK members and the like. “Racially insensitive” might be better for this kind of joke. But that implies that people who care are just being “sensitive”.
Tricky situation, and I think you did good. I’d have let it go, then been ashamed of myself all evening.
How about “xenophobic”? Or “English-centric”? Because actually, a Spanish-as-first-language speaking person could very well be Caucasian.
What I might say in a situation like that is, “Look, dude, absolutely anyone can step in it. I have. Most people do. Why should you be the one exception on earth who never does?”
Ach, I ran into the same thing once. This guy was trying to convince me that he absolutely wasn’t racist just because he would never consider “mixing his seed” outside his own race, you know, cause he had friends that were black, he just didn’t want to have biracial children! *head-desk*
I don’t know, how do you deal with that? Despite everyone coming to his defense I have to hope that it gave them something to think about, yeah?
My reaction to certain things depend on where I’m at online. In certain forums people post things for the sole purpose of getting a reaction out of people and egging them on. In this situation they KNOW its racist but just need attention. Most of the time they hang out on particular sites so I know not to fall into their trap.
In other situations I have no tolerance policy toward people posting foolish, privileged or just downright racist things. I try and gauge whether they’re listening to what I’m saying first to decide my next move. If they’re listening then I can continue with some kind of thoughtful exchange of concerns and ideas. If they’re being willfully ignorant and refuse to acknowledge their privilege I go for the throat and try and make them cry, because they’re a lost cause and they pissed me off. Petty? Probably but screw it, I don’t always take the high road.
I think you’d find these links useful, both to read and have on hand to give out to people:
Jay Smooth on “How to Tell People They Sound Racist”
http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_to_tell_people_they_sound.html
and this article on Aversive Racism, which helps explain how people who aren’t hood wearing Nazis still internalize racism:
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/racism10.htm
and this:
How Not To Be Insane When Accused Of Racism (A Guide For White People)
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/12/02/how-not-to-be-insane-when-accused-of-racism/
There are many other Racism 101 websites where you can find more. They’ll help with the, “Wow–why are they acting like *I’m* the one who’s done something wrong?” and in formulating better arguments to help explain to people you like why you aren’t fond of what they’ve just done.
Hope that helps, and good luck. It sucks when people you like and hang with show their asses.
I think it’s interesting you got offended about this. Because it actually shows more about your racial stereotyping than about the original commenter. Language is not equivalent to race. My first language was Spanish and I have blonde hair and green eyes. Why are you assuming that the Spanish language is connected with a certain race? Many people would suggest that’s insensitive. And if you’re upset a way of speaking was picked on… well.. I’m dubious. Would you be similarly offended, had the newbie been from Texas and someone commented in a “drawl” and told him not to go posting every page “pardner?” What if it was German? What if some German girl had asked a question and got responded to with “Nicht nein Frankenstein.” or babble, “krautengreuberlagenfedersubbe.” Language really isn’t an inherently offensive thing to me. So I don’t buy that the initial comment was off-color.
In fact here, in context, I read the poster as laughing at himself and his inability to speak Spanish. It’s interesting to me that you admit to intent to offend was present, but you called someone’s speech racist, which can’t but mean to offend. You had to know it was controversial. I agree that sometimes speech can be insensitive, and people should be called out on it. But I would almost always rather people saying insensitive things with no intent to hurt or cause drama than people saying insensitive “politically correct” things that they realize are likely to do both.
It makes me laugh that Meowser judges the comment not racist solely because the Spanish speaker could be white. (There is more than one definition of racism.)
Meghan’s take makes a lot of sense.